An Inteview with Cincinnati City Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz

Interview by Steve Fritsch, publisher of The Cincinnatus Standard --- (February 8, 2007)

Steve Fritsch: Leslie, you have been on City Council for a little more than a year now. What do you consider your top accomplishments, and what areas have been your greatest struggles?

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Leslie Ghiz: Greatest struggle would be budgeting and keeping everybody in check. I mean the struggles are easy to define. It's primarily budgeting and keeping the members of Council on task, and that is incredibly hard with nine people. For instance, you've probably seen me a number of times at Council just lay into people over stuff because (what they're saying is) silly. I mean the things that they bring up, and the things they say, and the political games (they play)... and yesterday (February 7) during Council I saw on the agenda that David Crowley had brought a resolution that's getting referred to (the finance committee) to pull our troops out of Iraq. That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. It's a political statement and he's more than welcome to make political statements all he wants, but don't hold me captive to have to listen to him. And, you know, make it about something that is relative to the city. So that's the hardest thing about Council, and just being discouraged with people because they're not strong enough to do the right thing. That's been the hardest thing.

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And my biggest accomplishment I think would be putting focus on safety in the city. I don't think that we (Council) have had it. I mean everyone said (crime) was an issue (during the last campaign) but I don't think anyone (has) tried to address it directly. And when I got on (Council) and started screaming and yelling about it because our Mayor is doing nothing over the issue, then people started picking it up and realizing that it was an important issue, and we had to pay attention to it. We are now going to likely get a temporary jail facility and I think that is probably to my credit, being that my office did all the work to figure out how to do this, and if we could do it and figuring out how to get funding to do it. So I'd say that's probably my biggest accomplishment. It will really be an accomplishment when it really occurs.

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You mentioned criticizing people sometimes for being difficult during Council sessions. I've read on different blogs where they've talked about these outbursts. Now are these so-called "outburts" basically due to frustration with dealing with Council members who aren't focused on the priorities that you think they should be?

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Yeah, a lot of it is frustration, and it's (their) stupidity. If you have ever noticed, I don't just randomly throw something out there. Most of the time I pay attention to what is happening and occasionally, and I will say this happens to all (members of Council), the Mayor goes very quickly and he switches the agenda around, so (one minute) you're looking at something and you think you're voting on something, but (then) he's switched to number twenty-four and you barely heard him say that they're switching to twenty-four. So that kind of thing happens and I really don't get on people about that. But it's things like when the law & public safety chairman (Cecil Thomas) is saying that he doesn't believe we have an immediate issue regarding safety and that we don't need a temporary (jail) facility. I'm going to light him up for saying that because that is just flat out wrong. And I've gotten on John Cranley for things... and I actually read on a blog at some point where someone was saying, "you're racist." And I'm thinking, "No, I don't discriminate in yelling at people" (Laughing). I mean I let everybody have it. It doesn't matter if you're Democrat, Republican, black or white, if you do something stupid the only way to really get people to notice that is you have to call people out right on the carpet.

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And it used to not work that way, but now that they changed the rules for Council... When I came in they changed the rules and you can't by-leave things anymore and you can't talk like that at the end (of a Council session), where you used to be able to address things. So since I'm not a chairman of a committee, and I never will be because this mayor's not going to put me in charge of a committee, I don't have the floor (to speak as often). So what I have to do is call people out as it's happening and when I hear the crap that is spewed by many of these Council members on different occasions I let them have it right there on the floor of Council, because you would not be the wiser if I didn't do that. You (the public) would have no idea of what's going on.

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When it comes to violent crime in Cincinnati, it almost seems as if it is never going to get any better. 2006 saw a record in homicides for the city. Is the current level of violent crime unsolvable, or do you see any hope on the horizon?

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Well, I don't think it's unsolvable, but it's incredibly frustrating. And there are days when I go, ''I can't believe it is what it is. I cannot believe that I woke up and just read that somebody was chased down in Avondale in broad daylight and was shot and killed.'' And nobody seems to think that that's an issue and everyone kind of just goes about their business, and you don't hear political leaders speaking up about it, particularly the Mayor. And I just have no... My feelings for (the Mayor) are very clear. I'm incredibly disappointed and I think he's just a waste of that seat. I don't see him changing his tune for the next three years and it's really too bad that's the case.

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A lot of money has to be put towards safety. A lot of attention has to be put towards safety. And I think the number one thing on (getting that accomplished) should be mayoral leadership, but we aren't getting that.

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Now you mentioned the budget crisis before, and you're saying that money has to go towards crime. What's the issue on that?

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Well, when I say a budget crisis, if you did happen to catch any of Council yesterday, what we had done is we had gone through for weeks to figure out how we could funnel every dime we had towards safety and to programs that enhanced (safety). And when I say that, I mean job programs for teens, off-the-street programs... things like a program that we are going to try to start with the county where you put a kid who's been thrown out of school with a mentor to try and get them to get their GED, and to try to alleviate the crime problem before it happens. So we focused everything we did in this budget process on that, and we cut back on some other things like human services; we cut that back significantly. The health department needed to be cut back. A few other programs, the CHRC (the human relations commission) needed to be cut back because they were duplicating services. And then yesterday at Council we had found out that a revenue was realized by the city in January, or a surplus to some degree, and a group of Council members wanted to spend, at minimum, a million dollars to refund those programs, and it was voted on to go ahead and restore all those programs. Yet the only person who said, ''Well wait a minute you guys..." (was me). Because Monzel wasn't there or he would have said the exact same thing I said; he was (out of town for work).

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So what ended up happening was we didn't fund the police department. We went and put back all the money to human services, to CHRC, to all these programs that we had cut, but yet we're still two million dollars in the hole when it comes to the police contract. And I can't understand that they think we're going to miraculously receive some windfall, and maybe we will, maybe the revenues will be there in February, who knows? But the point is we don't know that. And so the first thing you (are supposed to) do is you make sure your payroll is covered, and then you can go on and do all this other stuff, but it fell on deaf ears. Yesterday was a very frustrating day.

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You have been perhaps the most talked about Council member among the local media, including talk radio and on the blogs. You have been praised for your actions by some and you have been criticized, even ridiculed, by others. Does it ever bother you what other people say, or does it just come with the territory?

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I don't know. It doesn't really... Well, I shouldn't say it doesn't bother you. It always bothers you. But I look at it and say, ''If you're doing nothing then you'll have a really high favorable (rating) and no negatives. If you have negatives you're clearly doing something, because you cannot please everyone all the time. And I really wish you could. But people love to paint me as the bitch-type figure because I'm going, ''No, we cannot do this.'' But I'm the only one doing (that). It's not because I feel good about doing that. I would love to have every program under the sun funded and I would love to see all these groups that I've worked with as a volunteer be funded completely by the city, but we just can't do it. And no one seems to be able to draw that line and just lay down the law and say, ''This is it.''

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With criticism, I don't like it, but it certainly doesn't kill me because I know it means I'm doing something. I mean people wouldn't pay attention if I did nothing.

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Right now, the Republican Party in Hamilton County (as it is state and nationwide) is divided into certain factions (social conservatives, economic conservatives, moderate conservatives, libertarians, etc) which all want their share of power and control. And it seems as if many people in these factions look at other Republicans as opponents, rather than team members who are supposed to work together for the greater good.

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Many local Republicans were angered when you decided to publicly endorse your friend David Pepper, a Democrat, over incumbent Republican Phil Heimlich for Hamilton County Commissioner. Can you please explain to our readers why you made that decision?

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Well, the situation with David is easy. I mean... I stayed out of it as long as I could. But kind of the icing on the cake was last summer when my office did months of research on these temporary jail facilities and we had a very real possibility of having them, and we could get them up in three months, and we would actually have somewhere to put these criminals. That's the number one problem we've got right now in the region. And we floated the idea. We talked to Sheriff (Simon Leis) and he was all on board and we went and had a press conference to announce it before we passed it in front of Council, and low and behold, Phil Heimlich tanked it. He hated the idea. He thought it wasn't feasible.

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And you know what? To me, the only thing I'm thinking about is making this area safe, particularly the city, but the region in general. And that is sort of what started it.

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You know, I don't care about the fact that the Republicans aren't in control of the (county) commission. I care about the fact that we are doing what is right for the region. And I don't always like it (that the Republicans aren't in control), and it's not always a Republican idea, but it's what we have to do to make things better. And (some Republicans) sit here and say, ''I'm of the mind set: throw these jerks away. Put them in prison and then we'll figure out who we can salvage and who we can't.'' A lot of people on the other side of the coin, the Democratic side, are saying, ''We have to do treatment programs and we have to be a little bit more touchy feely.'' Ok, that's (all) fine. If that's what we have to do to get the end effect, we'll do it. But you have to be able to think like that.

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But that was sort of it. Heimlich politicized the issue, and to me, it wasn't political. (The jail) is/was a very necessary thing. And a lot of Republicans rallied around him and tanked the idea completely, but guess what? All of a sudden the jail levy fails and my idea is the greatest thing since sliced bread. So that was sort of what (led me to endorse Pepper over Heimlich).

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And I do have a close relationship with David. He's a friend of mine. I trust his judgement. I don't always agree with his judgement. But I know that he will do what is best for the area because that's the (kind of) person he is. And toward the end (of the campaign) he asked me if I would endorse him on his literature. And at that point, after you take so many hits (from people in your own party), you just go, ''Yeah, I will. Because I do believe in you and I will be voting for you.'' So, that's how it happened.

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But with regard to all these factions, you are absolutely right. I looked around the room the other night at the Lincoln-Reagan dinner and I was thinking, ''There are so many people here that I just think the world of.'' I mean, I just love them. I think they're wonderful people, they really strive to be good people. They want what is best for everybody.

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And then there are people (in the Republican Party) who can't see beyond the end of their nose. And those are the people that make it hard for someone like me because I'm going, ''You guys are going to have to wake up and smell the coffee.'' We are never going to see the old party, ever again. Times have changed. Things are different. You know, gay people are getting married. People are cohabitating before they get married and people are having children out of wedlock. And it is what it is. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it the best way to do things. It's not like how it was when I grew up. But it is what it is. And you can't kick everybody to the curb because you don't (agree with how they live their lives).

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It's just like David Crowley. He has the right to feel like he wants us to pull out of the Iraq War, but God, don't make me sit here and be held captive to listen to you talk about this. But he has a right to his opinion. And that's where I'm different than the average Republican because, I don't agree with half of the (Democrats), but I understand that they really feel wholeheartedly that these are their beliefs. So at least I'm understanding about it.

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When I interviewed State Representative Tom Brinkman last month, who has also butted heads with other Republicans over certain issues, I asked him, ''When do you think it is appropriate to speak out against a fellow Republican, and when is it best to remain quiet, or in the background?'' And he said the following:

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''My personal opinion is that the primary is the best time to do that. When you have a primary you have two competing ideas or visions, or three or four, and you let that happen... Once the primary is over though, I think it's appropriate that you support your party's person. If you don't want to support your party's nominee then they call that an independent. But by and large you should support your party's person... if you don't want to vote for your party's nominee, which I know a lot of people who didn't, then keep it quiet.''

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What do you think is the most appropriate form of action in these situations?

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Well, first of all, there wasn't a primary with Phil. Secondly, for anyone to think that I single-handedly lost that election for Phil Heimlich, then they're giving me way too much credit. And actually I appreciate that. But, the people who voted for (Pepper), if you do the break down, they were Republicans. And it wasn't because Leslie Ghiz told them to vote for David (Pepper), it's because they wanted a new direction. So, it kind of cracks me up because, I mean there were thousands of votes cast by Republicans, in support of David. So it's not just me. I'm just the one that's willing to step out and say, ''I support him.''

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I do believe that there is a time when (as a Republican) you stop (in your opposition to other Republicans), but (the Pepper/Heimlich race) had a direct impact on me. And that is, how we (City Council) work with the county is going to be everything in the next few years. Because it's going to be whether we get a jail, whether we get MSD straightened out, whether we get regional transit in place besides Metro. It's going to be the Banks. It's very important that we work with the county.

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So essentially you think that the former Republican majority of Heimlich and DeWine, that the cooperation wasn't there between city and county government?

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No. Heimlich was incredibly difficult. Everybody knows that. That's not going to shock anybody. I mean he called me out in some Republican meeting about whether I would support David, which is fine, I guess that's the appropriate place to do it. And I said, and this is early on (in the campaign season), ''David can win this election without me. He's perfectly capable of doing that.''

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And then it just continued to get worse. And I blame (Heimlich) for the failure of the jail tax. It was his fault because he was the face on it, and if there had been another face on it, it probably would have won.

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Another thing about where you stop. You stop at a level where it's affecting... (thinking) Like at the federal level. These guys have been after Jean Schmidt since day one and they won't let up. And whether they're right or wrong, there comes a time when you're screwing around with a seat in Congress. You're not talking about Hamilton County being ''Democratic'' or ''Republican.'' Your talking about losing a Republican seat in Congress. And every time someone runs in a primary against an (incumbent), particularly at that level, your sucking all the money out of a general election which makes it very easy for Democrats to throw a pretty strong candidate up with lots of backing for them to win. And that's what I don't agree with. You will never, ever, whether I agree or disagree, see me out there on the campaign trail against a sitting (Republican) Congressman. You just don't do it.

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Well, it doesn't have to be a strong Democratic candidate. Even a weak candidate like Victoria Wulsin almost won.

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Yeah, she almost won. And what's the purpose? You think (Schmidt) is going to step down?

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So you're saying there is a point where you have stop attacking fellow Republicans and try to work with the people who are there?

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Right. That's it. And they would get a hell of a lot further if they got along with her than if they didn't. Every single person out there, I don't agree with (all) the things they do, but that doesn't mean that I don't think they can't be an effective leader. You can't agree with someone 100 percent of the time. There is just no way.

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Finally, have you seen, or do you expect, any negative fallout from your decision to endorse Pepper over Heimlich with local Republican voters?

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No, I don't think so. I mean... people can do what they want to do. But where I am standing, I am a city candidate. It's a field race. I anticipate winning this next election. So, no, I don't see fallout from it.

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I think it helps in the sense that there is a new type of candidate that needs to be cultivated and that's one that can reach across the aisle and work with other people, as has been shown like when we did this budget. Myself and Chris Monzel were with Laketa Cole and Jeff Berding and Chris Bortz. I mean that's a motley crew, but we were able to advance some really good principles during that budget.

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And that's what is known as the ''fiscal five.'' Is that correct?

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Well, not anymore. Not after yesterday. Except it's down to a ''fiscal two,'' now. (Laughing) It's down to me and Monzel.

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And that's what cracks people up, because as moderate as I can be on things, when it comes to money and taxes and really holding on to it, I can be the nastiest person in the world, because with my money I'll do what I want, but I'm responsible for that. But when I'm responsible for someone else's (money), it's a whole different ballgame.

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Well, you would think that the majority of Republican voters would be happy about that.

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Yeah, but in the city that doesn't really bode well. In the city you're dealing with a population that wants you to (spend money). You're dealing with a majority of people who want to see those programs (funded). They want the arts funded. I mean I do too in a lot of regards. But there are things that just (can't be spent on all the time). When you're talking about whether you have police on the street or whether you're funding the drop-in center, we've got to start thinking proactively.

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Final question. I think it is obvious to even those who may not agree with you on certain issues that you really do love the city of Cincinnati. In the prospect that you serve four-terms as a member of council, what would be your top two or three improvements you would like to see happen by time you exit that would make Cincinnati a better place to live?

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I would like to see our population increase in the city limits and I would like to see violent crime numbers decrease significantly. I am a harsh critic, primarily of myself. And I struggle with it weekly. I struggle with (thinking), ''We've done nothing (as Council to make things better). We've done nothing.'' And it's very hard for me to grasp that because I'm a goal setter. Anything I do I go, ''OK, this is the end result. How do I get there?'' And I work hard to get there and when it's just Leslie it's easy to get there. But when you're talking eight other people it's incredibly hard. And that has been the worst feeling of all of it.

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There are days, like when I left Council yesterday, I was on the phone with (a friend) and I said to him, ''I'm very uncertain whether I can hang in there for another six years.'' And then I woke up this morning and I felt a lot better and I was talking to him again and he said, ''Well I thought you were ready (to give up),'' and I said, "No! I'm fine! I had my sleep. I'm good to go." (Laughing)

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But it's hard, because you want to make a difference. And it's so hard as a Republican. I am finally seeing that it is so hard when your ideology is so far from some people on Council that you can't even get in the same ballpark (as them). It's that bad. So I just hope and pray. You know, you lead by example and you keep trying and trying and trying. And hopefully I'll get to where the population will increase and the violent crime will decrease.

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Are you optimistic that it will happen?

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I think it can. I don't know if it's going to happen in the next three years. I think a lot of depends on the Mayor. But we are just going to have to work around that. There's nothing we can do about that.

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But, yeah, I think with the right person in (the Mayor's) position, we can do it.

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